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arero 62M
416 posts
3/14/2019 11:33 pm
NZ in Shock


The whole country is reeling tonight from the events in Christchurch this afternoon. We all thought it couldn't, wouldn't happen here and now it has.

The majority of victims are presumably Muslim and I expect a lot of them are immigrants. I feel ashamed that NZ has been the scene for such a shocking display of hatred and intolerance. Apart form offering prayers and condolences, all I can do is shout that as far as the vast majority of Kiwis are concerned YOU ARE WELCOME HERE!

arero 62M
1149 posts
3/14/2019 11:37 pm

I am breaking my own rule here and self commenting.


100mph_tongue 65M
1737 posts
3/14/2019 11:59 pm

My sincerest condolences to all families who are affected with the loss of loved ones and friends. A big well done to all frontline services who, in some instances, put themselves at risk to help others.

As a military man I have seen first hand some of this carnage in real time and it is always confronting, and in most instances, it is the innocents who suffer.

Why is it that people can not show tolerance to others and allow them to live in peace and safety.


arero replies on 3/15/2019 12:06 am:
There have been many heroes today, both Police, ambulance officers and other officials but also ordinary members of the public.

I'm astonished that four suspects have been captured, seemingly unharmed. So, not only bravery from the police but a remarkable show of restraint.

jenny14 70T  
69582 posts
3/15/2019 12:01 am

a

I too, as I hope ALL Australians are, am in deep shock, horror!

My thoughts go out for all the victims and their Families!

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing. George Bernard Shaw

Jenny


arero replies on 3/15/2019 11:36 am:
Touched to see your flags at half mast. Despite our differences Oz and NZ are still good mates.

arero 62M
1149 posts
3/15/2019 12:57 am

The authorites are jittery. Two unattended backpacks blown up at the train station in Auckland. Probably some backpackers lost their shirts! This is not NZ as I know it and not as I want it.


steelcager 56M
963 posts
3/15/2019 3:27 am

Thoughts and prayers for those who lost loved ones.


arero replies on 3/15/2019 10:33 am:
There are so many affected directly but we are all in shock. There's already a huge outpouring of support.

FloguFucku 47M
4 posts
3/15/2019 4:29 am

People of New Zealand,do NOT let these people win.Show solidarity with the Muslim community.


arero replies on 3/15/2019 10:35 am:
A lot of them came here fleeing such violence and to have them meet it in NZ is just unbelievable.

ina_scent 63F  
1859 posts
3/15/2019 6:20 am

I was very sorry to hear about this tragedy. Your message of YOU ARE WELCOME HERE should be repeated all over the world. And Polititians who promote or stir up hatreds should be voted from office.

I agree, do NOT let these people win.


You can only expand the mind so far before it implodes...


arero replies on 3/15/2019 10:40 am:
What's hard to come to grips with is that these people are our people, the perpetrators and the victims. It gives one an insight into how the majority of Muslims must feel when some of their fanatics commit some atrocity.

Dreamcatcher__ 82M
5345 posts
3/15/2019 8:09 am

New Zealand is sadly experiencing the kind of identity conflict that has shaken the rest of the world since the end of the cold war. None of us are handling it very well.


arero replies on 3/15/2019 10:43 am:
It's going to make a huge change in the national psyche, not of hatred but hopefully of tolerance and acceptance. Or maybe that's just my pipe dream.

drmgirl622 63F  
9357 posts
3/15/2019 9:07 am

I think it's that mindset of "it can't happen here" that catch us all off guard. God bless all of us...…..


arero replies on 3/15/2019 10:46 am:
We were so bloody smug that we were small and far away and therefore somehow safe. Hatred knows no boundaries and evil comes in many guises. As our PM has s said, we utterly reject those values. I'm proud of the NZ police for capturing the suspects and not taking the easy and tempting path of shooting them.

brandygirasol 49T  
3749 posts
3/15/2019 10:37 am

BOOMERANG EFFECT ... Worldwide Muslims Are On A Jihadi WAR Against The Jews And Christians For Quite Sometime And Now We Even Have Jew Hating Muslims Making Their Home In The Democrat Party Here In The USA HATE Begets More HATE So What Do You Expect- Peace On Earth????


arero replies on 3/15/2019 11:18 am:
We must not allow hate to beget hate in our own hearts. Muslims are not on jihad. A very small minority of them are. Just as a small minority of Christians are on crusade.

The effect of this atrocity on me was to make me realise how the majority of Muslims feel when some of their fanatics perpetrate some atrocity. It's easy to generalise when it's "them" who are at fault, not so easy when it's some of "us".

Now a direct question, for which I would appreciate a direct answer. Are you suggesting that Muslims are in some way to blame for yesterday's shooting?

GOD_GOD_GOD 93M
564 posts
3/15/2019 11:33 am

From what I hear an Australian made this attack in New Zealand because of the availability of weapons there. So in my mind it vindicates Australia's tough gun laws. You can appeal all you like about keeping the peace but keeping out guns like that used in the attack would be more useful and practical. Bad gun laws means you are geared for maximum effect. You know in Australia if you slip a Swiss army knife in your pocket to maybe keep your nails clean you can be charged for it.


arero replies on 3/15/2019 11:53 am:
I'm not aware at this stage what kind of weapons were used but it seems likely to have been semi auto rifles. As a hunter and firearms owner I do not support the availability of these weapons. No doubt it is something that will come under review.

I think in the immediate aftermath it's reasonable to want to reach out and reassure the people targeted that the ill feeling against them is not general. I think it's reasonable for people to reaffirm their opposition to hatred and violence. Firearms facilitated the attack but they are not the root cause. We need to be addressing both the cause and the means of the attack, but right now the people affected are the priority.

brandygirasol 49T  
3749 posts
3/15/2019 6:43 pm

Islam preaches hate thy neighbor while other religions preach love ... infinately more Jews and Christian's are murdered by muslims in jihad than Christian's on crusade. We all know this fact not opinion. The problem is their toxic faith so now we have a rare instance of muslims murdered and we All wrong our hands but last weeks murdered Jews or next weeks not so much...


arero replies on 3/15/2019 7:55 pm:
Now this is a classic example of where I VIOLENTLY disagree with you. It should not be a question of how many of each faith are murdered by whom, and even if it were it depends totally on how long a period of history you are considering. Arguably the greatest act of murder in history was committed by a Christian nation on Jews and Muslims in the 1940's.

I am particularly upset by this killing not because the victims were Muslim but because they were NEW ZEALANDERS. I dispute your view of Islam as a toxic faith based on hate. Many debase it for that purpose but so do many Jews and Christians. You can argue numbers here as well if you wish but again it depends on the time period. Yesterday, in NZ, it was Muslims being killed - Muslims who had never given any indication of hating anyone or wishing anyone killed. So yes, I am upset for them and for NZ that we have reached such a new low.

100mph_tongue 65M
1737 posts
3/15/2019 8:10 pm

    Quoting brandygirasol:
    Islam preaches hate thy neighbor while other religions preach love ... infinately more Jews and Christian's are murdered by muslims in jihad than Christian's on crusade. We all know this fact not opinion. The problem is their toxic faith so now we have a rare instance of muslims murdered and we All wrong our hands but last weeks murdered Jews or next weeks not so much...
Brandy you are right in what the base Islamic faith is all about according to the Quran , but, there is far more tolerance now than there was years ago. And this tolerance is spreading especially when you look at Islamic supporters/believers immigrating to other parts of the world. They have seen what religion and conflict has done to their own countries and they see a much better and less suppressive life in places like NZ or Australia.

Like in everything it is the fanatics that spoil it for the rest.


arero replies on 3/15/2019 8:30 pm:
The Old Testament, which forms the basis of the Jewish faith and part of the basis of the Christian faith, is not such a liberal document either, especially if you cherry pick parts of it. So much depends on interpretation and especially implementation in which Islam, as you observe, is becoming far more liberal in many regions.

We should not judge peaceful Muslims living in NZ by the actions of some hotheads elsewhere, and we certainly should not use the actions of those hotheads as a yardstick or excuse for our own actions and reactions.

brandygirasol 49T  
3749 posts
3/15/2019 10:19 pm

Guys lets note that ISLAM is the only religion that has declared WAR on the rest of the world's religions. ISLAM which means SUBMIT is unique in this regard. Do you SEE Buddists or Sihks or Jews or Christians commiting terror attacks? Yes its a MINORITY of muslims that murder but the MAJORITY cheers them on Jihad. Historically Muslim invaders have always sought to put their neighbors to the sword. The CRUSADES were in direct response to push back against the Muslim hordes. the more religious a christian is the more peaceful he becomes. The more religious a muslim is the more murderous he becomes. In muslim countries they take people like myself and throw us off tall buildings- presumably to see if FAIRYS can fly ... So I'm guessing ISLAMISTS have a sense of humor....


arero replies on 3/16/2019 12:17 am:
I find it impossible to reason with someone who thinks the crusades were justified.

Plenty of conservative Christians would also like to deny you the right to be what you are, although perhaps not so violently. Better if you threw your hat in with us liberals! Come over to the enlightened side

brandygirasol 49T  
3749 posts
3/16/2019 6:07 am

Thanks for the invite, Honey WE just see things differently....


arero replies on 3/16/2019 12:47 pm:
Yes we do, and I appreciate the challenge to my beliefs. Stirs the grey matter up a bit, and I'm learning from it


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